Category: Safe Haven
I'm not sure about you, but i'm starting to get annoyed with the amount of abuse i (and other members) have been getting recently. The abusive nature of the zone has been around since day 1, but now it's starting to get out of control and it needs to stop!
I've tried asking the staff, but they don't seem to care. In fact, they seem to like it and think it is all a big joke!
So i've decided to take a more external approach by setting up an online petition for people to sign. If, like me, you'd like the abuse to stop, then please click here and fill out the simple form; it'll take 2 seconds, I promise. By filling out the form and signing, you are helping in building a stronger case to put forward to the admins and the police if required.
Thank You
PS. I'm posting this under safe haven to prevent abuse.
Hello, everyone. I announced this on Publics earlier, but I will put it here as well. This comes from Chris N, so do not kill the messenger. I understand that many of you will be tempted to respond to this topic as you have to other posts by, "the Professional," on other boards. However, we as staff must abide by what is written in the Safe Haven terms. So, tempting as it maybe, those who post abusive or bashing posts under this topic will be warned and/or banned. As I said on publics, many of you are my friends, and I would not like to do that, but all of us will do what we must as CL's. Say what you will in response to the Professional's posts on any other board, but do be careful on this one.
the police?. robbie, i am sure the police wouldn't waste there time on such an idea.
you say you want all the abuse and drama to stop?. well, drama is a part of the zone. the zone wouldn't be the zone with out it.
as for everyone being horrible in your direction, oh... i wonder why?. you set up re generation x, gang licances and made threats of people being banned if they don't have a licance. in my view, that's stupid.
now you're posting that you want it all to stop, well, we'll stop posting how childish we think you are when you stop posting about gangs.
simple as that
Ok, lets say this board does get passed. Assuming that, we would then have to decide what abuse is correct? Who is going to decide what is abuse and what is not? If I joke around with my friends, to others, it may appear to be abusive, thus, I would be banned, though the people receiving the so called abuse, did not think it abusive. On the other hand, something that is meant to be abusive, may not be taken as abusive, or something said in passing may be viewed as abusive for some unknown factor, thus creating abuse that was not meant to be abuse.
If your going to ban people on so flimsy a notion as abuse, I'd like to know what your going to do about these eventualities. I've seen many cases on the zone where something that people said, not meaning offense, have been taken very offensively. people have gotten offended over the smallest things. Someone might correct someone's spelling, and even if its done in a kind manner, it is taken as an insult. Which one are you going to side with, the one who corrected the spelling and meant only to help, or the person who felt they were being insulted?
In order for it to be a rule, it would have to be clearly defined, and I simply do not feel that this notion is or can be clearly defined.
I feel this rule would be borne of passion, rather than reason, and that no rule can be based on passion. Rules must be based on reason, not the emotion of someone who feels they have been wronged.
That is my opinion of this petition.
In response to post 3, I don't see how the Professional creating a Regeneration X topic is worse than somebody creating a Degeneration X topic.
Some users may perceive some of what's written in the Degeneration X topic to be threatening and I can see why.
As a neutral who can't be bothered with any of this fake wanabe gangster nonsense, I have observed that how people react to the creation of a topic relating to the wanabe gangster nonsense, depends on who created the topic. If The Proffessional was to create a topic saying he's going to try to target people and have them banned, it would get a different response than if The Game was to create a topic saying the same.
Of course, I can't be bothered to sign any petition created by either side. However, I promis that if anybody creating any petition regarding the wanabe gangster nonsense, and demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that five sighted people who don't use the Zone support it, I will sign it, no matter who created the petition and which gang they're in or trying to get banned.
The moderators of this site should have enough sense to realise that allowing people to create topics encouraging people to join online gangs and targeting other users, no matter what their intent or how serious, is going to lead to trouble. Some people will feel threatened and intimidated. By allowing this to go on , the community leaders and admins must surely accept that those who create such topics think their behaviour on this website is acceptable, and may feel confident enough to go further gradually.
This site is a free for all unless illegal activity is involved. If you have a problem with that you should leave the site, because it won't get changed because someones feelings got hurt. If you want a safe friendly site why not create your own version of the zone where you moderate what's good behavior? I doubt it will get many users but feel free to prove me wrong.
I'm going to have to agree with Cody as well as the others on here. The admins of this site explicitly stated that there is freedom of speech on here, and nobody should have to control it. Yes, the drama does get old, but hey, this is a free-for-all site, so I don't think that anybody should control people's attitudes on here. Most of us are young adults and we can make our own decisions as to what we believe is acceptable, and that's why there's an ignore feature. So in my opinion, it kind of goes in both ways. Yes, the drama gets old for some people, but you shouldn't have to control people's attitudes on here. And of course, the CL's will step in if there's too much abuse going on, or even if there is illegal activity going on. It's all common sense, folks.
hey robbort boy, stop being a kid. if you want people to respect you in a good manner, why don't you come out from your childish behavior and act like a grown up? posting on Safe Haven so you won't be abuse? thats is very very amusing really.
to be honest, i think, we, as a community, got more mentally abuse by you than the other way round.
i can't believe someone that consider yourself as a founder of gangs, create such a board. if you are so bored with your life, and need such an attention, why don't you get out of your sible space and do something good to the community. oops, i forgot, that might be too much for you, as you are only a child, overall.
got bann because posting on this board? well, to be honest, i don't care anymore. as zone have become as it is nowadays, bann, maybe is a better option overall anyway.
and now, even after this post, i got to bann on zone because of what i said, then, i won't regret regardless...
as a zone user, i feel as i'm thred by the creator of this topic... after all, you are the one that gets yourself in to shit, and now, asking for the protection of Safe Haven? aren't you abusing the purpose of this board? it is like a man killed a person, and turn to the police and say "hey, help me, i got killed" instead...it is extremely amusing really... but that is not my point, my point is this, if what the staff members think your behavior by abusing the boards can be torerant, and we should be thred or afraid to post just because of how you abusing Safe Haven as someway to seek for the protection, i would say, it is extremely amusing on how the progress of this whole storry become. it is more than fantacy, and yes, that is the purpose you eventually want to have, to seek attention, and protection, just like a kid who wet the pants and cry for help...
kid, be a grown up, and handle this in a grown up way, then, you'll have everyone respect, instead of abusing every one else, by saying we abuse you.
It is laughable that anybody contributing to this wanabe gangster nonsense is claiming to be more mature than other contributors to it. I think all contributors to it are equally immature. I don't see this kind of behaviour around me.
It seems that the creators of the gang The Proffessional opposes object to The Proffessional behaving in a manner they consider to be abusive, but it's okay for them to make comments people perceive as threatening and abusive.
To me its all silly and the funniest thing about it is that people who are in their 20s and older are contributing.
As I have said, I can't be bothered to join or support any of these fake wanabe gangs. They wouldn't last 5 minutes against real gangs.
Let's just say, for fun, that this petition had 100 signatures. It won't ever reach that amount, but let's pretend it would. Then what? What makes you think the staff and admins will change anything? The Zone is what it is, and if you don't like it, perhaps you should look in to going elsewhere. Or, stop behaving in the childish manor that you are, and slowly, people will not only stop "bullying" you around, but might actually have respect for you. However, you continue to feed the proverbial fire by starting other gangs and stuff like that, so you have no sympathy from me. Want this all to stop? Take matters in to your own hands and stop reacting. By writing this petition, you have only further shown that you just want to start more drama by complaining about it.
People have a right to complain if they feel that they're being bullied or intimidated and if that provokes further bullying, then not only is the complainant at fault, but so are the people who're bullying the complainant. To suggest that all this fake wanabe gangster nonsense is the fault of The Proffessional is a bit unfair, and from what I've read he is being singled out despite his opponents showing themselves to be no better or more mature than him.
I do agree that The Zone isn't the only social networking site on the internet, and I am relieved that the volunteers and service users I work with know better than to engage in this childish fake wanabe gangster nonsense. Long may this continue to be a problem that is limited to a few silly immature people on a website.
We've received a couple of complaints regarding posts on this board. This board is not bash free. It is, however, supposed to be free of profane language and discussion of a sexual nature. For your convenience, I have copied the discription of this board at the bottom of my message.
This board is for people who are easily offended by the subject matter of some of the other boards. If you wanna talk dirty, just take it to another board. We will warn and suspend accounts for people who don't respect this board. After all, you have the rest of the site to post in.
Ignore is there for a reason, as I stated above. If you don't like drama, there are several methods of getting away from it, from turning your publics off to ignoring people. This is a chat line for people who want to get away from the stressful things in life for a while and just hang out and have fun. To many people on here, the drama that goes on can actually be amusing, and that includes myself sometimes. Think of this as letters on a screen, and not real life. This is just a web site, so don't take everything so seriously.
Since my last post I have discovered that Fuster Cluck is a community leader, and that the Proffessional is 13.
Baring this in mind, I think Fuster Cluck you are wrong to single out The Professional. He is 13. Some of the people who he has accused of bullying him are in their 20s. Some may be older.
As a community leader, you should in my opinion be warning the adults who have posted content that could be perceived as threatening or abusive against The Proffessional. They are adults, and they should be mature enough not to engage in that sort of behaviour against a 13-year-old who wrote a petition against them.
I find your stance, which appears to be to have a go at a thirteen-year-old for not acting like he's older than some of the people in their 20s who are bullying, astonishing and if that is the stance of the other community leaders and the admins, I would be interested to know why. You're responding to this as if all the contributors are adults when they are evidently not.
I can assure Zone users, that I won't be bullying children on here.
Yes, he's got the right to complain but when he's one of the main perpetuators of the drama, he really should step back and reevaluate the situation, find a solution that isn't totally one sided to his cause and realise that people don't want to deal with his utter stupidity and find some more expressive and useful ways to deal with his problems rather than takeing middle school tact and doing exactly what he doesn't stand for. if i've got it strate zone dx wouldn't mind banning idiots like him and he wouldn't mind banning zone dx members. His error then, is asking and makeing a winey little drama out of something he just won't drop. he's appearing to be desperate to win hislittle battle, not to end the violence. He holds him self above others and sees his actions as justifiable. until this changes and he adopts equality in the way he treets his enomies or ignores and stopps perpetuateing the drama nothing will change. Cl's can't doo anything here as he's bringing it on him self, others can't change it as no one can get it threw to this guy he's fighting a battle he's long sense lost.
in short, even if this effort was a truely good one, its not going to work until he takes the steps above.
Cls I'm pritty sure i stayed in the guidelines posted above by fuster cluck if, i didn't please let me know with example spasifics so i don't make this error again.
Okay, so i'll admit that in the year i've been on here (or near enough a year), I may have said/done some things on here that were not wise and I regret that now. But what I will say is that I don't believe i've deserved the amount of abuse i've received on here. I mean, i've had to resort to posting in safe haven now to prevent this topic from getting spammed with abuse. And some of the abusive comments i've been getting recently from certain members just for even logging in are totally uncalled for!
The Proffessional isn't the only one who won't drop it, but he's a teenager. Some of the Zone DX members are in their 20s or older. Surely they should be the ones setting the example and expected to stay out of any trouble the Proffessional might create.
Of course the Proffessional shouldn't be causing trouble, but he isn't the only one to have caused trouble on here. Yet only the Proffessional is being held responsible, while the adults get no blame.
When a teenager (The Proffessional) does something some adults don't like he gets loads of abuse, but when adults abuse a teenager nothing is said against them. One must have a strange sense of morality, or at least a sense of morality that is alien to me, to agree with that.
Those who complain about the amount of drama here should stop creating it.
As we CL's, and even some member such as Michael, continually remind people, the ignore feature is there for a purpose. If the Professional, or any other Zone user for that matter, does not like what is being said to them, then they only need ignore that user. Everything can be ignored, from public QN's, to board posts, ZBP messages, private mail, etc. I have not looked at the Professional's ignore list, which I would have access to, but from what I'm seeing, I'm wagering he has not ignored most of the users he accuses of bullying him. Between that, and his continually responding to the posts of others, he is bringing much of this drama on himself. If he would simply ignore the others, whether through the ignore feature itself, or by simply not responding, I think things would go much more smoothly for him on this site.
This does not entirely excuse the others, either. They too, are having fun at his expense, when all they need do is ignore him, or simply not respond to the ammo he provides them with. In short, it is definitely drama that has become overblown, and yet, none of it so far has violated the terms of service, so we are simply monitoring it.
true Senior, the only difference is the dx members see it as a joke and arn't asking for something to stop or change they perpetuate. they don't exersize hipocracy quite as freely.
People shouldn't have to hit ignore buttons to prevent cyberbullying. Those who are being abusive to others should be stopped. After they've finished with one user, some will find another to bully.
Saying just hit the ignore button is similar to telling somebody who is being bullied at work or school to just ignore the abuse they're getting. It's easier said than done.
Though the DX gang may see their actions as a joke, as I have said, others may see what they have posted differently.
Senior, you gotta understand that as much as you say about bullying, there's no one bully him to start with, it is him who start with all sort of nonsense to gain attention in the last 2 years or so, with his abusive / bully / childish behavior, we simply join him by having a dx board to entertain his amusing childhood. but again, he, as a 'teenager' as you said, 13, month old, perhaps, or whatever age he in right now, he take this in extremely childish manner. for god sake, a child even its just 4 year old will understand adults when they ask him to stop crying or stop screeming for the sake of screeming. but him, considering himself as the leader of a gang, in the age of 13 or whatever he is, can't even respect his own and hope people will get respect from him?
may i kindly ask you, if he's your child, what will you do? help him to bully others, or calling other immature when he's the purely immature person?
age shouldn't be a deal, it is not fair to say because he's 13 month old, we got to live his way. this is not how the world goes, as far as the world is concern.
you got to understand, as much as the zone deal goes, or as all the communities go, either in a sible space or in reality, there's always the cases of people not agreeing each other, and some will have offended by other's action, it is the matter of accepting it, and yes, ignoring it. if whoever it is not comfortable with this web community, you can kindly move on to others, and make sure you bring your 13 month old child with you for your sake, and for his sake, and more so, for us, as ordinary zone users sake too.
and to you robbort boy, show your evident to the community here openly, on people hacking your accounts, and yes, take the legal acction that is require. but i'm afraid that you have nothing to show, cause the cls had told you again and again to show them evident, but you can't even create one to show them. or perhaps Senior, you might want to help your wipping child in this manner, if you are so confident that some of us have bully or abuse him in his inersense childhood of 13 month old.
life is just that simple, if you don't fancy what other have say about you, move on, but i'm afraid maybe both of you can't do that, perhaps, you both in the same extreme level of matturity that we, as an ordinary mature people, won't understand.
I hear you professional. some of The bullying isn't called for, I will say, but you've got to learn not tu provoke it. Stop making stupid board posts about gangs and so forth; that is very childish really.
In fact, anyone who believes they should be powerful enough to start and be involved in such vertual gangs are extremely childish.
Wow Joanne. lol And Senior, I kindly have to disagree with you because ignore will actually end the abuse, if you ignore everything, that is. It does work very well, and as I've said twice before, it is there for a purpose, so use it at your own will.
When I was 13, I didn't go crying and complaining about every little ting that happened. There is a thing called experience, and I learned from it. Whether you are 13 or 113, you have to deal with the consiquences of your actions. And, yes, the bullies will eventually go away if they have no one to bother, just like when you get teased in school and the bullies get bored if you don't give them a reaction. Senior, I'm not condoning the actions of either side on this matter, but this kid has been given plenty of leeway and plenty of chances, but never learns. I have tried to discuss this with him before, explaining nicely why things are the way they are, but to no avail. I'm not singling him out, he's singling himself out by creating board topics and continuing the drama himself. As stated on the home page, we're not your parents. As such, I am not his guardian on this website and have the right to feel the way I do. So what you are essentially proposing Senior is that we give him leeway on this? Should we also give him leeway if he breaks the T.O.S.? Trust me, I didn't just pull my opinion out of no where. Those at 13, or any other age for that matter, can not take what this site has to offer, I suggest finding an alternative place to hang out. Hey, here's a thought. Learn some html and PHP and create your own site where you can have all the rules and bann whoever you want. Jared had the right idea on this one. Hey, if I find the site and enjoy it, I'll even visit there and respect every one of your rules.
I normally don't get involved in discussions of this kind, but this one brings some thoughts to mind. There is a legal age limit set forth on this site of 13 years of age. That is the law. This law means that anyone old enough to use this site will and can be treated as a person with reasonable mental abilities to know when he or she is saying things that may cause others to respond in a not favorable manner. Saying that adults are hurting a child is no good, because this child is suppose to be old enough to use reason, sense, understand about the world at large. To protect children from abuse, teasing, or any such other mis treatment, or perceived mis treatment is his parents responsibility not any administrator of a website. The law states he or she is now able to conduct him or her self in any manner she or he wishes, so if she or he provokes strife, then he or she must be able to stand the rebuttle from any age person they come from. Age is not a factor here. Maybe the zone will teach the professional how to live in the world at large. Start a fire, you get burned if you keep your hand on it. He knows this, so complaining his hand got burnt is okay, but means nothing to anyone but his friends.
Maybe his experience on the zone will better prepare him to conduct himself in a safer, and more respectiful manner, and if not he will continue to suffer abuse.
Forereel, you raise some good points here. And Senior, there is a difference between telling someone to ignore a user on this site, and telling them to ignore a bully at work or school. Co-workers or classmates are people who the recipient of the bullying must see every day, face-to-face, in person, and often has no choice about. You can't just quit going to school, or quit your job, unless you have another one to go to or something. I was bullied in school myself, many times, as I'm sure many of us on this site were. As blind folks, most of us know plenty about being bullied in school.
However, most of the people on this site haven't, and never will, meet each other in person. They don't have to deal with each other face-to-face. Heck, if a user doesn't like what's going on, they can make the choice to stop coming here, it's not a requirement to log in, as school and/or work is often required to attend. So, when a user hits the ignore button, it really does help, because they virtually never have to see that person on the site again. As I've told many a user, even before I was a CL, you can be as much or as little a part of the drama around here as you choose to be, and the Professional is making his choices in that regard, and now living with his consequences. I know he finds those consequences not to his liking, but he does have the power to change it, through far more effective means than the petition he has created
Apart from everything that has been said so far, I can confirm here that, when The professional approached me 6 months ago about his account being hacked, I told him to submit proof of such acts.
Needless to say, the proof never came, however, his constant wining increased, as did the drama involving him.
During that time, I said that, if he, the professional, could provide sufficient proof that his account was hacked, we would immediately act upon it. Well, the proof just didn't pitch, but, his wining in pqn's continued for quite some time, up to the point when I just snapped and told him to f.... off, (as he told you all on many occasions).
I still stand by what I've said back then: If anyone is found hacking into another user's account, regardless of who it is, regardless of who's account it is, (yes, even the professional's account), action will be taken, but, then we need solid proof of such acts, not some random accusations, grabbed from midair.
Regarding the call for the abuse etc. to end on here, I also agree that occasionally there are mean users, who like to make fun of others. But, having said that, if you give yourself out to be a lollypop, people are gonna suck you.
The Proffessional isn't the only person to have created topics about online gangs, but yet again, he is being singled out for doing so when others are also equally guilty.
Though some of us didn't go crying to teachers, parents or anybody else when we were thirteen, others did/do. It's just the way it is.
Season some of your remarks could be interpreted as personal insults against The Proffessional, which he could interpret as provocation. I notice that the CLs who commented on his provocative behaviour made no mention of your provocative behaviour, and you are ten years older than the person you were insulting.
Even if accounts haven't been hacked, threats to do so and evidence of bullying and provocation can be found on this thread.
It's all a bit juvanile really, on both sides. But I think that this topic raises some interesting points:
Firstly, it's quite easy to justify the abuse directed towards a thirteen year old when the abuse that thirteen year old dishes out is just words on a screen. Would some of the adults on this site feel comfortable saying the same things to a thirteen year old face-to-face?
I have no idea about gangs and hackers and abusive posts on either side. I'm sure there is fault on both sides of the argument, but whether people acknowledge it or not, thirteen is still a child. And while that does not justify any nastyness on the part of the thirteen year old, the adults on the site really should know better, and abusing the thirteen year old for abusing you does not make you right and him wrong.
One of the issues with having social networking sites like this is that we mix with people we wouldn't mix with in rl. You wouldn't choose to hang out with thirteen year olds, equally thirteen year olds wouldn't choose to hang out in places full of adults. But because it's the internet, they are thrown together anyway.
I think this all raises the question of whether children should be permitted to join the site. My personal opinion is that they shouldn't be allowed to join until at least sixteen. A lot of what goes on on here certainly isn't appropriate for most children under that age, and it's clear that most children under that age behave.. well.. as children, which just ends up winding people up and leads to tention because the adults feel the children should behave like adults and the children don't because... well, they're children.
Right, here are my thoughts on the current situation as it stands:
While I appreciate that the ignore feature could be used in this situation, I do have some issues with it. Firstly, when you hit the ignore button, in my view, it simply allows others to joke and make comments about you behind your back and also prevents you from reporting them if they say something that is against the TOS about you such as making a racial remark towards you. Secondly, and remember this is just my own opinion, I feel that in a way, the ignore feature is a kind of get out claus for the staff and other users to fall back on if they get in to a situation like this. And a thing I have also noticed is that you cannot block people on your ignore list from sending you email via the zone, even if you ignore everything. Yes, I know you can disable the email functionality, but why should I have to turn it off just because a few people on this site can't leave me alone! Other, kinder people may wish to contact me and it helps me verify their identity before I give out things such as my email address.
And the get out claus thing also applies to the statements on the homepage like "We are not your parents." and "We promote freedom of speech." And regarding the evidence thing. I don't remember ever being "formally" asked by the staff to provide evidence, all I remember was the time when q told me to f******. Surely the cl's and admins must have access to IP address records or something like that that they could have checked or something. It's harder to provide proof now for 2 reasons: 1 because I am using a braillenote and have never used a PC to access the zone and 2 because the hacking incident happened a few months ago now so information has been wiped.
Oh and one quick thing that I almost forgot: Since the hacking incident and all the gang stuff started a few months ago, I have only had one new person put me on ignore. So before having a go at me for not using the ignore feature enough, i'd stop and have a think about whether you've used the ignore feature enough yourself! So I currently have around 6 or 7 people ignoring me at this time.
Remember, these are just my thoughts so please respect that.
Indeed we have access to IP address records, and, although I cannot confirm how the rest of the staff handled it, I personally did check and recheck them when you started with this story back in April. I did tell you on at least 2 occasions that there was no logins from a suspicious IP Address, and asked you to submit proof. ...
I am not sure on what grounds you need to be "formally" asked to submit proof of people hacking into your account ... Were you hoping for a formal letter from the Zone BBS staff in it's entirety?
Just wondering.
I too checked into the IP records when the Professional accused others of account hacking, and found nothing suspicious. Neither side is completely innocent here. The Professional is dead serious in his accusations, I think. He really believes this stuff has and is happening, yet he offers no proof, so we can't, and therefore don't, act. The other side is simply being sarcastic, and sees the whole thing as a huge joke. Either side could stop it, but neither is choosing to. So, as I said, since nothing that's going on thus far violates the TOS, we monitor the situation, and if anything does happen that violates them, whoever commits the violation, on whatever side, we will act immediately.
SugarBaby raises a valid point. I, too, feel that 13 is far too young to be able to join this site. Given some of the content that is on here, I feel that the age limit should be raised to at least 16, or, preferably to me, 18. Most sites that contain such graphic sexual content as the Zone sometimes can are restricted to18 year olds. However, that choice was made by the creators of the site long before there were even CL's at all. Chris N once explained the legal reasons for his and JJ's choosing the age of 13, but I do not remember, and did not fully understand them. Chris, if you would be willing to post to this topic, and explain why the age is as young as 13, I, and I'm sure some other Zoners, would appreciate it.
if I remember rightly, the reason why the age is set at thirteen is to do with COPA (the children's online privacy act) which in the US, means that websites cannot collect personal information, i.e. names, email addresses etc, from children younger than thirteen.
Now, I think that the fact we allow thirteen year olds raises additional questions (and I am happy to raise this in a different topic if required). Given that the admins say the site is ok to be accessed by thirteen year olds, I think that the admins of the site have a responsibility to ensure that the content of the site is suitable for thirteen year olds, which it clearly isn't.
Obviously there is a disclaimer on the front page which says there is freedom of speech/up to you to decide what is and isn't suitable content... etc etc, but are thirteen year olds really able to make that distinction? There are people that say it's up to the parents, but is it? The admins, by allowing thirteen year olds to join, are essentially saying that the content on the site is suitable for thirteen year olds.
If you put a thirteen cert on a film then you say it is suitable. The same should apply to website.
I'm going to have to agree with Alicia and sugar baby. This does have a lot of sexual content on here, so if I were the admin of this site, I would probably raise it to about 16. It's just not a good idea for a 13-year-old to be looking at stuff like this.
If the response of Q and Sister Dawn to hacking accusations is typical i.e. how they usually respond to hacking accusations, then the response will in several cases give hackers an advantage.
Hackers know what they're doing. They know how to get access to data on people's computers that the owners of the computers don't even know how to access.
Let's say a user who is not a geek gets hacked and complains. The user is convinced that he/she has been hacked, but cannot prove it due to not having sufficient technical skills or not being able to express his case clearly enough. If there's no suspicious IP address would the hacker be found not guilty?
I agree with Sugarbaby re Admins.
Term 4 of this website has been violated, as I demonstrated in post 29. Clearly The Proffessional feels threatened. The other side may see it as a joke, but to conclude that their threats aren't serious on that basis sets a precedent which could lead to more threatening behaviour. The community leaders are in effect saying that threats aren't threats if the people making them aren't being serious. So I could post a new topic in which I threaten to hack Sugarbaby's account, call her a few names and advocate pulling her fingernails out one by one. People have advocated having my fingernails pulled out one by one on here. So long as I say I didn't mean it, and that it was just a joke, it's okay. It doesn't matter how Sugarbaby feels about it.
Also noticeable in the terms of service, is the absence of any term stating that people cannot abuse each other. People can't annoy each other according to term 4, although this hasn't been implemented in the case of the wanabe gangster nonsense. So long as abuse isn't "racially insensitive" it's not a violation of the terms of service. That is why situations like the one that is the subject of this thread occur and escalate.
our beloved extremely seniorly mature senior, are you overly mature that you can't differentiate the meaning between joke and serious? or your brain is overly grown, that you can even use it properly to think?
as i said earlier, the dx topic that created is purely to entertain your 13 month old nappy boy, to give him some life on his early year.
to be honest, if you want to do such chrime, on hacking other people computer, you would have thought one will do it undergrand, instead of publish it out loud for the whole community of around 10000 people knows, won't it? brain, brain, use your brain.
for god sake, why one would want to hack an account of a 13 month old boy? what will you get in that account? dirty wet nappies? and what can you do with the dirty nappies, kisses them? every one that have brain knows that hacking is a chrime, if one want to commit such chrime, you would think, they will fancy someone that have a better status than a 13 month old nappy just to make it wip and winjing around and left the others to enjoy his drama?
use your so overly mature brain to think for a second, if he has the prove, why don't he show them.
i witness cls approached him early this year, and dated back to last year asking him for prove of what he claim, but he has none, he's not even capable to create some, before he acuse on other hacking his account.
one who have normal mature brain, or even a kid of 6 year old, would have thought, if one want to acuse other of such behavior, won't one create some prove to acuse that person, so the storry stand? but he's too capable perhaps, to think of such, and if you believe, there's someone hacking his account, help him to create some prove and publish openly on this website.
i agree on the age limit, it should be at least 16, or even 18. look at the history of zone, before we have teenagers joining us, it is a clean community, yes, there's some adult content going on between users, but still, it is relatively clean and peaceful, but, ones we started to have teenies to join us, the whole zone start to shape differently. most drama kings, princes, queens, and princesses on zone is teenagers that perhaps have nothing more to do than fooling themselves and other...
if in a real world, i definitely won't socialize with such a kid, either he's 13 year old, or 33 year old, or 113 year old. i've only an IQ of a normal person, can't really socialize with someone that have a much high level of IQ then me.
age aint the problem though, is the matturity is the problem. i only can socialize with someone who have similar maturity like me, or accordingly to senior, immature, but i can't socialize with those that is extremely mature. too bad, i'm not capable enough to do so, but i'm happily to be so.
Yes it may be a thirteen year old starting it. but joann, you would think the older ones would just ignore it and let him throw his fits. but no they play right along, and in some cases take it even further than the kid did! So maybe the ones who are posting making fun of him and blah blah blah need nappies too. it's all immature. Not one of you is acting mature about it! fun, not my idea of fun. but whatever! no need to act like a hipacrit though!
your acting just as childish as he is! The only difference is most of you are older!
I wanted to see what was written by the professional, so read some of his postings. He is 13, yet he has great reason, control of the english language, and even when he is creating he seems to hold it together perfectly with his logical arguements. Now I am not saying it is correct to abuse him, but his age should not be a barring factor when he decides to levy rules, regulations, ans such things. It makes people want to jump in and give him a hard time. I really don't believe his age was thought about when the people decided to have fun with his postings. Senior you are trying to join a group, or site and change how it is run, or the people that are members of it. Lots of things have been said to others on this site adults, or not that were not sugar and cream. It just seems to me if you are free to join a group, you must except what that group is about. Now after you join that group and you don't enjoy it terms, teasing, or speeches, then you are just as free to unjoin it, but you are not given license to change it to suit you and the way you think or your beliefs. In the real and cyber world these are the rules of life. I'm sorry the Professional is only 13, but he has not been restricted from his say, beliefs, or even creations and using admins names untruthfully. He has been given his rights as an **adult** or what is allowed by law, and has been treated fairly So he must allow everyone else to enjoy the same freedoms he has. Senior you'd not like it if I came to your house and decided you will change and do things as I do simply because you allowed me to come visit you. The azone is no different.
Peace.
ok ok. here is my 2 sense worth.
the original dx was just myself, joseph, herv, bri and lory, it was our little cleek.we did not entend on harming anyone, we were just out here to have fun. we were minding our own business untill out the blue the professional fires these acusations of hacking at us.
now anyone that knows me will know that i know nothing about hacking anything. i just about know how to use a damn computer let alone hack one. so ware he got this insane idea that i or any of my friends hacked a computer is beyond me.
as for the professional why does it say on his profile that he is 24? just curious.
anyway to cut a long story short, dx is all about having fun, yes we are harsh sometimes, and yes we do speak our mind, but its a matter of respect. if you don't annoy us, we won't bother with you. we are not out looking for trouble, if trouble comes our way we do fight back.
the whole point of what i'm writeing is, if you look at my bored it may say about hacking, but its only what he accused me of.
if people don't like my humour then tough.
i will not change for anybody and if he just stopped and thaught
about what he is accuseing people of, and thaught about what he said then maybe, just maybe we wold leave him alone.
hate me or love me i don't care. i know who i am and i know i have never hacked anything in my entire life.
as for the dx thing, it grew and it grew, not because we want to annoy professional and not because we want to cause trouble. it grew because we are all about fun, not mallis or hurting people fun.
draw your own conclusions
Okay, I've been watching this topic unfold from afar and have now decided to add my thoughts. Firstly, I've gotta say to the profession, well done on post 31. I've not had a lot of respect for any of your previous posts but you have at least earned some temporary respect from this quarter for that one. The point about the ignore feature being a "get out" clause is a good one... it's the reason why I don't use it, but then what I do instead is just hear what might be said and do nothing. I've always been aware that while the professional can articulate himself better than plenty of people on this site, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of what he's coming out with is still rubbish. That's in regard to post 39.
Secondly, about the age issue... I disagree that the minimum age should be lifted. There are exceptions of course but I tend to think that plenty of members between 13 and 16 handle themselves quite fine in this environment. Additionally, I don't believe that each of us should necessarily treat a 13-year-old differently from a 23-year-old just because of their age. That would hold if the meeting were in person but online we're all fair game in my opinion. Most of us don't even bother checking the age of every single person whose board posts we reply to - I didn't even know the professional was 13 until it was brought up on this board, and I'm still not sure since his profile doesn't say his age - at least I don't think it does... feel free to prove me wrong on that one.
Now, to the actual issue at hand... it was a master stroke of the professional's to put this topic in the safe haven... best way to insure a proper discussion of it without people just flaming him for everything he says. My thoughts were expressed best by Faraaz... this whole thing was started by the professional accusing him and others of hacking his account. The first time I heard the name "Zone Degeneration X" was in the professional's topic "beware the zone degeneration X"... those of us who found it amusing jumped on for a bit of fun. Is that acceptible? That's debatable but the decision to be affected by it was the professional's, not ours.
Those are my thoughts on the subject. I hope I expressed them properly. I know there'll be plenty of disagreeable people but like I said, that's how I see it. A word of advice to smooth this whole thing over: I tend to think the professional does have plenty to offer this community if he just stays out of trouble. Let those topics - the drama-filled ones - die slow deaths and eventually, people will forget this. As for bullying, it happens, but it's those who allow themselves to be bullied that become the regular targets. So it is in real life, so it is on the Zone.
In response to the hacking thing: As I mentioned in my last post on this topic, I use a braillenote to access the zone and i've never used a computer to come on here. So this makes it difficult to provide what you would call "sufficient" proof. Also, while I have a very basic understanding of computers, i'm not an advanced tech expert so that makes it harder to interpret and present technical information relating to the hacking. The one thing I will say is that there was a post early on in the topic "Important Warning: Be ware of the zone degeneration x gang" under "let's talk" from faraaz which said something like "We take full responsibility for what happened to The Professional's account." And i'd be interested to know why the staff are treating the hacking so publicly; I would have expected a lot more private communication.
Another slightly suspicious thing i've noticed is that the staff failed to comment on my previous points about the "get out claus" thing.
And one more quick thing and I appreciate this may be off topic: I was reading the topic about the death of user LindseyB. It said that she passed away on friday 18 september, yet on her profile it says the last login was on saturday 19 september. I didn't want to post this information in the LindseyB topic itself because I felt it wasn't appropriate. Again, that last point may be off topic, but it might be worth checking.
Oh and one small thing to clear up: My age does not show up in my profile as 24; in fact my age is actually hidden. But at this time i've made 24 graffiti posts so that may have been where you were getting confused.
RE the post about the DX taking full responsibility for hacking your account, when I read that, it was plainly obvious to me that was meant in sarcasm. I don't believe it to be an admission at all. If that's what you are basing your hacking claims on then let it go. I understand why you can't prove your hacking claim, but can you at least tell us why you suspect hacking? Were there changes to your account? Was there a board post in your name that you didn't write? I'm not trying to attack you. I'm just curious. As a largely casual reader of all this nonsense, it appears that your claims of hacking are based on paranoia and a desire to get attention. As for all the abuse you have taken, I do think some have crossed the line with that. In fact, I myself crossed the line with the one contribution I made to this drama in the thread about banned members voice tags still being on their profiles. It was a result of frustration with this stuff never dying and my perception that you are the main culprit in fueling the fire. When I made that post, I was unaware that you were 13 although that shouldn't make a difference. I try to be civil to everyone regardless of age even when I disagree or I find people annoying. It's just common courtesy and I had a little lapse. I should have thought before posting instead of letting my frustration boil over. So, for that comment I apologize. I would also like to say that I am impressed with how you have handled yourself in this thread and hope you are able to find a resolution to this mess that allows you to enjoy your time on the Zone. Personally, I believe you would be best served to let this go and die away quietly. I believe both sides have made mistakes and it's time for everyone to just let it go. Good luck.
Personally, I've been overreacting to all this stuff myself. But allow me to reiterate that there is an ignore feature if people bully you too much and you get stressed out. And to all who posted on this topic, let's go ahead and drop it and leave it alone.
since the question about Lindsey B's account have been asked, i will address it on here:
After her death, her family requested one final login, ... doesn't matter by who, or why.
I think you're either not understanding what you're being told about this whole hacking thing, or you're just deliberately ignoring it because it isn't what you want to hear.
Let me put it into as plain English as I can. If your account was accessed from another computer other than your own, then the site would log an alternate IP address for that computer. That would then show up when the community leaders checked into it for you. Both Q and Sister Dawn have both said that they checked when you complained, and neither of them ever came up with multiple IP addresses which would suggest that the only machine accessing the site during the period that you say you were being hacked in, was your own.
Now the only way that that you possibly could have been hacked then is if somebody had remotely gained access to your machine, a Braille note I believe you said you used, and had managed to log in using your password that way. Firstly I know nothing of Braille notes so have no idea whether remote access can be gained or not but the point is academic anyway because if that is what happened, then the problem becomes yours and not the site administrations. You're responsible for the security of your own computer and if in some way it isn't secure, then that is your fault.
I don't understand your complaint that community leaders aren't handling this issue privately either. From what I understand having read this topic you made several complaints to different community leaders. At least 2 of them checked into those complaints for you and told you that they couldn't find any evidence of hacking but that if you were sure it had happened to provide more proof. Proof that you then for whatever reason, weren't unable to provide. Now I'm assuming that this was all done privately in which case things have only gone public largely because of topics that you yourself have created. You can't expect to create topics suggesting that the CL's are showing bias towards a certain group of individuals and then not expect them to defend themselves.
Truthfully I'm not sure what else you expect with this whole hacking thing. The community leaders checked and couldn't find proof, you couldn't offer any proof yet you seem to expect something to be done about it, even though nobody can say for sure that it happened, in fact all the available evidence would seem to suggest that no such thing took place. So in so far as the hacking question goes, surely we're at the stage now we're you either put up or shut up. prove it if you can, and if you can't then move on because there really is nothing more that the community leaders can do.
As to the abuse issue, I can only really reiterate the point that Sister Dawn has made which is that so long as things stay with in the boundaries as set out in the terms of service, there isn't a great deal the community leaders can do. I understand that you don't like it, but things are what they are. Stop posting to these boards and eventually, the bullies will move on. And you know, the sad thing is, it really is that simple. You need to understand that your actions have continuously fueled the flames.
Senior, I take your point questioning why is it that only The Professional is being told to behave more maturely while none of the others are however there is one important distinction, none of the others are complaining so vociferously about what is going on. That is why it's the Professional copping all this flack. He says he wants this to stop so quite rightly, at least in my view, people are pointing out to him that he has the power to stop it just by not contributing to it. Now you can make the point that it is wrong for older people to bully significantly younger people and you'll hear no argument from me on that score, but that doesn't change the fact that The Professional can stop all this uproar right now if he really wishes too. The one thing that is guaranteed not to stop what's going on is to create nonsense board topics such as the one where the professional claims that he has been put in charge of gang creation on the Zone. From the way he writes he doesn't come across as a stupid individual so he has to have had at least some inkling as to the type of responses he was going to get to that topic, yet he created it anyway.
Dan.
I agree with dan and steve in many ways.
One other thing i notice Is that in these debates several double standards have been razed by many individuals. this makes debate or conversation a little more dificult as a result.
I don't believe the age should be razed because as has been stated before, many 13 year olds are quite able to handle them selves well. Further more, I'm thinking that a surtain level of impartiality has come into play e.g, people justifying these things have only thought of how a child would be razed in there current living conditions. For all we know, the parents might be OK with just about any action the child may take or the parents might shelter them. There for, its slightly outragious to raze the limit and tell people "this is not acceptable for you" if there is no law or government regulation that sets a limiting factor on this as it is.
In short, as i haven't seen any laws that would limit a 13 year old's access to the sight, its not right to over step the bounds of there care giver and tell them "this isn't acceptable for you, you arn't mature enough to decide your self and thus, we arn't allowing you access.
If you're fundementally against this, creating a websight is easy enough. and I think the Administration has taken a similar view. Cris N has said something similar to me when I asked him about this subject a year or so ago.
So the reason The Proffessional is being told to behave more maturely and the likes of Season aren't, is that the Proffessional has complained about the abuse he has received. That's a strange way of handling complaints, and doesn't inspire confidence in the community leaders.
Yet again the Proffessional has been singled out for creating "nonsense board topics". He isn't the only one. If other people can create "nonsense board topics" in which they make threats that are supposed to be interpreted as a joke without being, why shouldn't the Proffessional be able to do the same without being abused?
It seems to me that there is one set of rules for the Professional which could be called a list of don'ts, and another set of rules for his opponents permitting them to do what in the opinion of the community leaders, The Proffessional shouldn't do.
Evidence supporting my claim can be found on this thread. Notice how quick community leaders have been to react to The Proffessional's posts, then compare it with their failure or is it refusal to respond to post 37. Of course I haven't complained about post 37, because I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt to community leaders, and find out if they'd respond to abuse when no complaint has been made. I wasn't bothered about it enough to complain, but based on what I've read in this thread, I presume that if I did complain, I would be blamed for aggrovating the situation. If I didn't put my complaint in the public domain, Season wouldn't even know I made it.
What is the point of having community leaders? In my opinion, they show no leadership, they are completely unhelpful to people who are on the receiving end of abuse, and they don't take bullying seriously.
I think Senior that you miss my point. I didn't say that the Professional shouldn't create any board topics that he wishes too and I'm not singling him out for doing so. However what I am saying is that if he does create a topic that others don't like, that he has to accept that people can, and most likely will tell him so. The same goes for anybody creating any topic.
This topic itself is a good case in point. he created it, nobody else did. What else are people going to do other than to come on and offer advice and or opinions pertaining to the issue. He says that everybody is bullying and that may well be the case, but the site does offer ways around this and if he then chooses not to utilize those tools offered him, again I ask, what else should be done? Am I to take it that we're now just supposed to rip up the terms of service altogether and create a whole new list of rules just for the benefit of one user?
All I did say in my previous post in effect was that the Professional needs to consider his own actions when posting to the boards if he doesn't wish to be lambasted in the ways that he has and so far as I am concerned, that applies whether you're 13 or 55. It also applies to all users and not just the Professional though I was responding to his specific plea at the time which is why I named him. So if that's what you mean by me singling him out that wasn't the case at all. I took my general stance and applied it to him, the same stance as I'd apply to anybody when posting to these boards.
So I stand by absolutely everything I said above. You might not like it, but so long as these users aren't in breach of the terms of service then there is very little that the community leaders can do. Remember, a community leaders job isn't to tell people how to behave, their job is to aid in the smooth running of this web site. Again, that might not be something that you agree with, but that is still what they're here to do.
Dan.
Senior I fear you are not paying attenchen friend. Smile. The professional has been given the same right, as everyone to say, and create nonsense and allowed to do as he likes 13 or 55 as anyone else barring disobeying the terms of service. He has not, and they have not, so he is not being singled out, just being treated as a member of the mighty zone. That means you will be teased some and as I have stated if he does not like it simply **unjoin** He does not have to take it. Smile. He can stop logging on and have peace if he chooses. He! Can! Not! Have! Itt! His! Way! Sorry. Smile.I personally the first week I joined got kicked lots. It was interesting and gave me the chance to use my typing wit. hahaha. Well I've said all I have to say.
Peace.
Parents: Cyber Bullying Led to Teen's Suicide
Megan Meier's Parents Now Want Measures to Protect Children Online
The parents of a 13-year-old girl who believe their daughter's October 2006 suicide was the result of a cruel cyber hoax are pushing for measures to protect other children online.
Tina and Ron Meier, who are now separated and plan to divorce, have taken up the cause of Internet safety after a bizarre twist in their daughter Megan Meier's death.
The mother of a former friend of Megan's allegedly created a fictitious profile in order to gain Megan's trust and learn what Megan was saying about her daughter. But the communication eventually turned hostile.
"There needs to be some sort of regulations out there to protect children. Parents can only be in so many places and so many times," Tina Meier said on "Good Morning America Weekend Edition" Sunday. "I wish there were regulations with these forums. There's got to be something."
The Meiers said they are unsure why someone would do such a thing.
"We don't know. How do you get in the mind of somebody? We just have no idea," Tina Meier said.
While the Meiers do not believe it was the woman's intent to have Megan commit suicide, they do hold her solely responsible for the death.
"I believe they are the ones who took her to the edge of the cliff and forced her to go over," Ron Meier said on "GMA." "Everything that we found out so far -- it was the sole idea of the mother."
You can read this story here
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3882520&page=1#
Along with others like it at the following links.
http://poverty.suite101.com/article.cfm/cyber_bullying_can_kill
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/23/2633775.htm
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2009/05/cyberbullying-law-coming-soon-myspace-suicide-case-leads-to-legislation.html
http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/11/vigilante_justice
I'm not saying that Robby is in that general mindset, but how would any of you that have been bullying him feel if you knew that maybe you were the ones that pushed him, or maybe someone else over the edge? because maybe they felt that they were being bullied, and no one cared enough to do anything about it? Community leaders, I know you may have done all you can, but maybe you could talk privately to the main protagonists and stop this, before something bad happens. Do you really want a story like the one previously posted to run in ABC News about the Zone?
I know I wouldn't.
senior, as dan stated I think you didn't get the picture. Cl's were telling the professional that he shouldn't do what he is doing if he wanted to stop the drama, they wern't telling him to stop or forcing him too in any way. Just trying to give advice.
Ban televission, the internet, school, rock music, magazines, libraries, churches, and life in general for all 13 year olds in case they can't hack it and kill themselves? I write that seriously. Life is life, and if parents need to protect their polific in this case from the internet in cause he or she must deal with life then remove the keyboard, and take his or her braill note. Don't allow them to have a smoking gun so to speak.
Okay professor senior, i take the conclusion as you've come to the conclusion of using personal attack towards me, to protect your 13 month old, or whoever years old kid. If in your mighty opinion, I’ve cross the TOS, please kindly report to the staff, and frankly speaking, i don't even care to be banned from zone. Because, I’m on my level of maturity to be responsible of what I’ve said, but no regrets on any of the post. But in another way, I’m not too sure if you are too mature, or infect, overly mature, that I’ve break no rules on the TOS, beside, i simply to request you both to be a grown up, and move on.
in fact, that all my point, from the very start of this whole, DX, or RX, or whatever gang that your friendly kid want to create, i simply ask him to be an adult and, let face it, zone have no different from the real world community, just that, in here, he, or most zones who's attention seeker, manage to get their attention across, where else, in the real world, no one would even give a single care of all these matter. And with your level of maturity, with 23 years old, yourself, you should capable to understand this and helping him to be a grow up, instead of playing along.
It won’t do him any good, it will only do him harm, and pleasuring his fantacy.
I’ve told him at the very beginning, before i realize that I’m talking to a piece of wood, report his case to the CLS with proves, and take action from there, instead of keep winjing, and do nothing about it.
not only me adviced him so, lots of zoners at that time told him so. But then, he kept complaining and accusing us on public QN abuse him, yes, i must admit that somehow, some of the previous zoners got really anoy, and making fun about him. If my memory trace me right, all these happen last year, professional kid, am i right? I can remember, one of the day when all these happen it was around early morning your time, UK time, cause it would have nearly evening here in Australia. but as the result, your kid, professional person kept anoy everyone on public quicknotes, and the drama goes from there.
I stending still on my very first point at the very beggining, before even the existent of you, Senior, i've told him, and many have do so to respect himself and others, without accusing of things that people didn't do. okay, if he's absolutely sure that Faraaz and the gang, who include most of the members on the dx have hacked in to his account, show prove!!! but untill this very moment, he show nothing, and you, as his helper, who is absolutely sure that his account have been hack, show us the prove!!! But none of you both are capable to show us prove if they exist?
I’m not too sure how the Braille note or how remote connection work on zone, but i’m very sure, infact i’m 99.99999999% sure that zone staff is very tight on IP addresses. Whoever that they suspect that might have log in from a suspicious IP address, they will contact the user itself. Personally i’ve been contacted a few time because me and another user, used to share the same computer, and in ocation, we log in the same time, we, both me and my friend got ask to explain on such matter.
If someone hacked in to his account, or in this regards, to anyone else account, surely the IP address would have picked up, and surely one of the cls would have known. But as few of the cls had said before, no any of the IP address that they can picked up from his account, that isn’t belong to him.
Regardless of what connection you use, i’m sure there’s somehow an IP address available for tracing, and yes, for hacking protection too.
And to you, professional kid, do something better with your life, you’re a teenager, or however old or young you are, spend your time with something that is more meaningful instead of spending your time in such uneventful drama. It won’t get you a job in a long term, you can’t have an attribute as a ‘drama king’ in your resume. That will get you no ware. Go to chase your dreams in the real world, for god sake, you are only however old you are, you have lots of time in your life.
Hacking or no hacking, you or your absolutely supporter have no evident to support your accuse, that is the end of the story as far as it goes. If you stop your extremely mature behaviour, and stop accusing / abusing other on abusing you, you’ll gain lots of respects from the others, and making friends, instead of making anermies.
and slightly off topic, i agree on post 54, it is purely parents respondsibility to monitor what a child do in the internet. i've heard recently, an Australian mum helping her 6 year old girl to create a facebook account by lying the age. according to the mum, the reason for letting her daughter to have a facebook account at the age of 6 because, her daughter want to play farmvills on facebook... i'm not too sure what parents think of that, but, in a personal level, i won't allow kids in such age to go near the computer. it is too dangerous, not only on sible child traficking / abusing issue, but it generally effecting the health and developement of a child at that age.
One important thing to remember is that the abuse started before the whole gang thing started. As i've mentioned in other topics, the abuse started in February when I went on zbp and got nervous when I was asked for my age by another user.
Regarding the hacking thing. Hmm, i'm not sure about the IP thing; I can't comment too much because I don't have access to the information. But looking back, i've noticed a couple of things that strike me as rather odd:
1. There was a topic created using my account called "bring back joshua bozac" which I honestly don't remember posting.
2. In the Regeneration X topic I believe, cameron macteapot said something like "would you still like me to send you that dirty voicemail?" This implies that there was a previous discussion between me and cam over a dirty voicemail which again, I don't remember having.
On many occasions i've considered seeking external (or even legal) action against the zone, but it probably won't achieve much. What I will say is that I think the Terms Of Service may need to be reviewed. And don't forget that this is not the first time something like this has happened. Although I wasn't a member at the time, there was the abuse of joshua.bozac; I've read a couple of the boards about him so i've seen some of the abuse.
Oh and thanks for clearing up the LindseyB thing.
Dan, thank you for so patiently explaining things in post 47. I have always admired your way of writing things in an easy to understand, friendly, yet no holds barred style. I am just sorry that your patient explanations so often fall on deaf ears around here.
Keep in mind, everyone, that when it comes to proving account hacking, or other mischief on the site, we do not collect evidence on IP records alone. Those are what has been emphasized here, and I'm not going into detail about what other ways we can prove or disprove a user's claims, but I assure you, it is not on IP addies alone. Also keep in mind that we can see who posts under the anonymous box on the grafiti boards. While most of this drama has taken place on the main boards, where all names are shown, it has been going on to a lesser degree on Grafiti. Seeing who posts what has shed some light on the situation that other users would not see.
Professional, I have actually been impressed with your last few posts. While I still disagree with much of what you say, and while I still believe that you are the one with the most power to stop this drama, posts like your latest ones will begin to earn you respect. You have expressed yourself in a very clear and intelligent manner, whereas many of your other posts come off as petulant and childish. Keep expressing yourself in such a way, quit fanning the flames, and they will die down. I appreciate your concern about LindseyB and that situation. Rest assured that we saw it immediately, investigated, and made sure what had happened and why. Q has already given as many details as we are allowed, but I say that only to show that we indeed do our jobs, and I'd say most of us do them fairly well.
Senior, I will say to you what I have said to others. If you dislike the Zone so much, and think it is managed so horribly, why do you come here? Do not mistake me. I do not wish you to leave. I have seen some very interesting posts from you. But if you dislike things here so much, why waste your time?
Well I am not surprised by the absence of any mention of Season's posts by you Sister Dawn.
When have I said I dislike the website? If I didn't like it I wouldn't use it.
I have expressed my views disagreeing with the way community leaders have responded to the situation, but these have been purely observational. I am not involved in or affected by this dispute. I am not involved in any conflicts between people I've never met. When community leaders respond as they have to this situation, I am not affected by their decision regardless of whose side they choose to take. I am just reading what they write and responding to it. In this case they have implied that they hold The Proffessional responsible. I think its six of one half a duzzen of the other.
I would do things differently if I was running the website, but I'm not and nor do I want to. Before I log in, I have a rough idea as to what I may encounter on here. I know that I could be abused, somebody may want to intimidate me, somebody may want me to be shot dead etc.
People have incited violence against me on this website, but I didn't feel threatened or intimidated. I am strong enough to be unaffected. After all, they don't know where I live and the probability of those who have suggested acts of Guantanamo Bay style violence should be carried out against me ever having such violence carried out is very slim and I know that. Yes people have advocated such extreme violence against me such as having my fingernails pulled out one by one.
I have also been insulted and abused on this website, but it didn't bother me enough to make me want to complain about it. I have never complained to a community leader or admin about anything on this site. I don't use any ignore features; in fact I don't even have ignore buttons displayed. Nobody on here bothers me enough to make me want to press an ignore button.
I appreciate that usually when people say things like what I have said above, deep down they feel intimidated, threatened etc. They're a bit like one of the Big Brother contestants (I think his name was Dan) who upon finding out he'd been nominated for eviction, said "Am I bothered?" Clearly he was because he felt the need to convince everybody otherwise. What I have said is genuine, but it doesn't matter to me who is convinced and who isn't. There may be some person somewhere in this world who thinks that actually I feel extremely intimidated or threatened by some people on this site; they can think that if they want. It makes no difference to me because I don't know them personally and if I devoted time wondering what hundreds of people all over the world I have never met think of me it'd require more thinking and effort than I can be bothered to make.
I am not involved in this drama. I am not on either side. As I said in my first post to this discussion, I can't be bothered with this wanabe gangster nonsense. Both sides are guilty of it and I have more important things to do that join wanabe gangs that wouldn't last 5 minutes against real gangs.
On Saturday I am off to watch Huddersfield Town play Exeter, even though I disagree with the way our team is being managed. At least I am consistent! If somebody in Singapore thinks that I'm actually off to watch Sadford, then I will make my first complaint to a community leader.
I agree with the last poster. I've been bullied on here numerous times, and in my younger days I responded to it. however, now I just take the high road and ignore it, because I know the truth and that's all that matters.
This is getting better. Robert, I'm glad to see that your posts aren't so childish and are more mature. Keep it up.
Robby, I agree with you, but also the others as well. You, because as a new member I was bullied constantly and it really ticked me off. However, as the others said, this site is free for all. There's gonna be drama. If you don't want to participate, ignore it.
And senior, from your posts, I'd say your correct.
just to update this topic, as of today I am no longer 13.
I actually was bullied on here way back when as well. But instead of letting myself get pushed around, I responded in such a way that was reasonably inteligent and which apparently, gained the respect of others. I didn't get that by complaining, and, like when I change a channel when there is something I don't like on the radio or tv, I can also stop visiting a site if it bothers me so much. With that said, I'm glad to see this board sort of starting to come to a resolve.
Scott, you've got enough of a sarcastic wit on you that anyone who bullies you, especially online, is going to get as good as he or she gives.
Frankly I've often seen new people get bullied on public quicknotes. All someone has to do is ask a question and everyone gives a snarky answer as if they should know everything even though they are new. I even got the same thing when I was new. But yeah, you either have to ignore it and try to find one or two friendly people to help you out or just deal with it and give back the same sort of crap you are getting. Or, you can ignore everyone and turn off all messages. But to start board topics complaining is just going to make things worse no matter who you are.
I agree with LibraLady above. I haven't been around for a while, but I got the same or similar treatment when I first arrived, too.
Starting a board topic about it is only going to perpetuate it.
Hmmm, I never got that treatment when I joined the Zone, but I'm not surprised to hear that others have. It's a shame, though. When someone is new, unless they're making trouble, I think they should be welcoemd and helped out, not demeaned for asking questions. Gives theZone, and its members, an even more bad name than we already have. *Grin* But, as Becky said, a bored topic or a petition will only make things worse. Find one of the staff, because it's part of our job to help new folks, and/or find some friendly people to help out, and gradually assimilate into the site.
Okay. I'll just say it:
Robbie, I do realize that you do not appreciate many of the things that have been said to and about you. However, like many sites that promote free speech, the best way to get these people to stop saying these things about you is to completely ignore it altogether and pretend you don't hear it. I can almost guarantee it will stop, as difficult as it may be to think about at this point.
On many sites such as this, people pick users they believe are easy targets, and say whatever they want just to get a reaction out of the person. Usually, it is nothing personal, but meant for laughs. Yes, this is wrong, but since this site does promote free speech, which is usually a good thing, there is not much that the staff can do about it, provided the attacks don't bring in anything that is against the T.O.S.
One more thing: As you probably know, creating a gang to stop the actions of another gang is probably the best way to fuel the fire rather than to stop the gang. I'm not saying that all gangs are bad. Let's say, for instance, that somebody decided to start an environmental gang, or club on the zone. They could go around promoting ways to improve the environment. That's just an example.
I did sign it, not because I take a side, but because generally people in blind communities turn out as nasty and rude. As follows is what I wrote in the petition.
“I know I am one of the more sarcastic members, but I too agree that this trouble should stop in any general blind community.”
It is extremely disgusting that ever single blind community involves fighting, please stop acting as savages and integrate in to society.
I could be banned from the site, because of this, but I ain’t care, it’s the truth, and you lot must act!!!! I am only fighting for the good in society.
well, don't we, blind people are human over all? we only have the intelegent of a human being, don't see why we need to be so exclusive... no wonder, sighted people say, they don't understand blind people, because, i don't think, i can understand our own blindy creature myself...
Sighted people, blind people, we're all people. We're both just as entitled to the same rights, we're both just as entitled to endure the consequences of our actions.
Well said, Jessica.
To post 70, where did you come up with that? Don't you think social networks like Myspace are just as bad? Sure, they have more members, so the owner doesn't care about each person individually, but that site is a breeding ground for stalkers. so by your logic, all sighted people who use social networks are stalkers? That's a load of crap.
I agree with the turtle that screams. You need to be careful when you're making statements like that, especially to people on a site like this one. I don't care how intelligent you are or anything like that. And don't ever put down the sighted because they're all stalkers. In fact, I'm sort of disappointed that you would say such a thing because I know of many friends of mine who use facebook and MySpace, and many of them are sighted. Don't post here again unless you can make better statements than this totally general, broad, stupid statement.
And I should add that these sighted people tat I know are not stalkers.
well said Michael.